Short Answer
Yes, leadership in the church begins with pastors, but the primary work of the Holy Spirit today is through the teaching and application of Scripture—not necessarily through dramatic signs or miracles. Pastors are called to lead by faithfully teaching God’s Word and guiding the church in truth.
The Overview
Church leadership is centered on the role of pastors, who are responsible for guiding, teaching, and organizing the life of the church. If a church desires to see the Holy Spirit at work, that direction and emphasis should begin with its leaders. However, the key question is not just who leads, but what the Spirit’s work looks like in the church today.
The primary expression of the Spirit’s work is found in Scripture. Since the Bible is described as the Spirit’s own word, pastors are called to focus on teaching, explaining, and applying it. Worship, preaching, and discipleship should revolve around biblical truth, shaping how believers think and live. This is how spiritual growth and transformation take place.
There is also discussion about spiritual gifts, especially miraculous or “sign” gifts like tongues or supernatural healing. In the early church, these gifts served a specific purpose—to confirm and authenticate God’s revelation before the New Testament was fully established. Once Scripture was completed, the need for such signs as proof was no longer the same.
This does not limit God’s power—He can do anything—but it shapes expectations. The focus of church life should not be on creating or reproducing dramatic experiences, but on faithfully teaching God’s Word. True evidence of the Spirit’s work is seen in changed lives, spiritual maturity, and obedience to Scripture.
Key Takeaways
- Leadership Begins with Pastors
They guide and set direction for the church. - The Spirit Works Through Scripture
Teaching and applying the Bible is central. - Miraculous Gifts Had a Specific Purpose
They confirmed God’s revelation in the early church. - God Can Still Act Supernaturally
But it is not the primary expectation for every church. - Transformation Is the Real Evidence
Changed lives show the Spirit at work.
Transcript
[00:00:01 – 00:01:26] Hi, I was calling about how leadership in a spiritfilled church if the pastors are spiritfilled and they’re praying for the spirit to move within the church and they want the gifts of the Holy Spirit to move. Shouldn’t it begin with the pastors? Uh yeah, everything begins with the pastors in the sense that they’re providing leadership for the assembly. And um of course, if you think about the church and how it should function, it should function decently and in order. And if it’s going to be done decently in
[00:00:45 – 00:01:37] an order and it’s going to honor the spirit, I’m going to look to the book that the spirit wrote called the Bible. And I’m going to spend most of my time in the service either singing the principles that the spirit has written in the book that he wrote called the Bible or teaching and explaining what it means and talking about its implications. You may be thinking more of the uh ostentatious expressions of what people call the works of the Holy Spirit. And if that’s the case, um, I’m
[00:01:11 – 00:02:06] going to say that there’s a kind of spectacular expression of the spirit that was used according to Hebrews chapter 2:es 1-4 to, uh, authenticate the word of God as the word of God when we didn’t have a written word of God. And in that sense, I don’t know that there’s a lot of that, uh, at least biblically in terms of the purpose of why they were given a need to replicate that. Of course, God can do anything, but what God has purposed to do, all of it is according to in that text,
[00:01:39 – 00:02:37] according to the will of God. As it says also in 1 Corinthians 12 and 1 Corinthians 14, it’s all according to the will of God. And the will of God, I think, right now, is clearly within the church that we are singing the truths of God’s word, the spirit’s book that he wrote, and to explain and apply the text of scripture and what he wrote. the principles that are within the text are to to be carefully explained and lived out and the pastor should be putting services together uh of course with a
[00:02:08 – 00:02:58] lot of difference to what the spirit would want to apply and say and and emphasize in a service and I want to see that taking place within the church. So the pastors, yes, are going to play a prominent role in that. But I think our definition of what God’s spirit’s work looks like may be a little different just based on the way that you asked the question, Trisha. But the answer is going to be yes. If in the first century and we’re there in Corenth, we don’t have a written word of God and we’ve got
[00:02:33 – 00:03:26] prophets that are standing up and speaking, yes, all of that should be governed by the by the pastoral leadership of the church. They’re ultimately the ones that are given the administrative charge of the church. That’s what First Timothy 4 says. is they are supposed to rule or administrate in the church and teach within the church and it’s their primary responsibility to lead those services. So whatever happens in the service the pastors have a responsibility uh to guide it, direct it and to set the pace
[00:02:58 – 00:04:21] for it. Um does that help at all Trisha? Well, I guess what I’m trying to ask is um the comments have been that we want to see the gifts of the spirit, the speaking of tongues, prophecy, uh um edification, and all the gifts of the spirit to operate among the body. And um I’m thinking in in my way of thinking anyway is that if that’s what you’re wanting to see then once you have taught on that and if you have certain gifts of the spirit as the pastor you should initiate those before the
[00:03:40 – 00:04:39] congregation. >> Well according to 1 Corinthians chapter 12 if it’s the kind of gift that is the ability to speak a language you didn’t learn which is what the word tongues means. as it means language uh a language that was not previously known uh then I think the the text of scripture is very clear that not everyone’s going to have that gift and uh I believe there was a certain reason for the miraculous sign gifts there’s plenty of gifts that are not miraculously breaking natural law and
[00:04:10 – 00:04:58] breaking natural law is me being able to speak French and never studying it that would be a breaking in natural law and someone who speaks French being able to understand what I’m saying and understand the mighty works of God being proclaimed through me in a language I never learned. That would be that would certainly say something uh definitive about the fact that God was involved in this in this congregate. He’s not in the business of doing a a magic show in every church in every generation until
[00:04:33 – 00:05:28] he comes back. He was about establishing the veracity of of revelation by showing signs and wonders that broke natural law that normal people can’t do. But God was doing through the leaders of the church and even participants within the church so that people could know that what’s being extolled from the platform is the truth. Because a lot of people could say things about Christ, but some were speaking out of the spirit of antichrist and some were speaking by the spirit of God. How do I know the difference? Well,
[00:05:01 – 00:05:56] because God was enabling the spirit to do miraculous signs among the early church. And see, this is my understanding of how this functions within the church. And even the second century church understood that that time of those miraculous gifts to bear witness to the revelation that was coming through those prophets was a first century reality that once we had the scripture codified and they had it in their hands, the work of breaking natural law was done. And a lot like the plagues and the things that Moses and
[00:05:28 – 00:06:25] Joshua did in establishing the truth of God speaking through Israel and particularly through Moses the prophet, they were able to have then the written decalogue or the first five books of the Bible. Everyone could read it and know it was God’s word, fear it as they read it with trembling as Isaiah 66 says, and they could then obey it. And that’s my job as a pastor is not to get up and to show that God can do a miracle. My job is to teach the book that the spirit wrote and that the spirit through
[00:05:57 – 00:06:50] miraculous signs when it was given established as his word. And so here’s the thing. If we’re seeking a sign to prove that it’s true, the Bible says that’s a perverse and wicked generation. What I want to do is to know we have the word. It’s been given by predictive prophecy. It’s been given by miraculous signs and I can speak it in my generation unabashedly and unashamed. And I don’t have to get up and say, “Now, let’s everybody do a miracle.” which I think is what some people want
[00:06:24 – 00:07:10] in their churches when in reality the spirit’s saying we don’t need that and therefore I don’t think the spirit is doing it as often as people think he’s doing it because if it were the kind that was happening in the New Testament it’d be on the front page of the local paper. My daughter for instance is paralyzed from the knees down. If we had someone in the church that was really saying something and my daughter was then skipping around the playground of the church the next day. I’m going to
[00:06:47 – 00:07:36] say, “Well, that’s big news.” And my doctors at the Children’s Hospital of Orange County are going to go, “Wow, that’s amazing. This was a miracle because her nerves were uh hopelessly severed in her spine, but now uh she can walk. They’re all healed.” And that’s not supposed to happen according to all the doctor’s textbooks. Well, if that’s going on, right, then all of a sudden now instantaneous healings, for instance, or or people that really can
[00:07:10 – 00:08:04] speak uh in in in Farsy without any study, that’s going to get attention. the kind of attention that gets beyond people saying things when they look like they’re whipped into some kind of of of euphoria and saying, “Well, that was God’s work.” Well, every sign that God gives is a clear sign, a sign that is undeniably clear. It points to the truth. And the truth for us has already been written. It’s a 66 book library that I’m saying I teach from every Sunday. And I don’t think I need to get
[00:07:38 – 00:08:23] up and to have a miracle show to prove that it’s God’s word. That’s my view. Not everybody shares that. I got plenty of Christian friends that don’t share that view. But since, you know, this is Ask Ma Pastor Mike Live, that that’s where I would say your expectation should lie. What I want my pastor to do, if I’m you, is to preach the word. The word of God, it’s living and active, sharper than a two-edged sword. It’s going to change your life, and it’s going to change my life. And I think
[00:08:01 – 00:08:15] that’s the important thing that we ought to have as the expectation of our matured life. Yeah.
